Are we watching the death of OPEC?

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JT Moderator	Message Posted: 12/2/2008 8:50:19 PM	Ignore JT Report Abuse
	Wednesday, December 03, 2008 MSN Money -- Is this the end of OPEC? The plunge from $148 a barrel to $50 a barrel in less than five months has opened huge fissures in the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries. Some members, such as Iran and Venezuela, are desperate to raise oil prices so they can balance their national accounts. More-conservative members, such as Saudi Arabia, can balance their budgets even at current prices and have room to fear they will be the scapegoats if the global recession deepens. We've sat deathwatch for OPEC before, but this time the cartel's future looks especially bleak. Its Nov. 29 meeting in Cairo, Egypt, ended with members deeply divided. The Venezuelas and Irans of OPEC have dug themselves into such a big spending hole that their only way out would be for OPEC to raise prices by cutting production while letting the cartel's hardest-pressed members cheat. Visit MSN Money for full article

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foxesfords Sophomore Author Atlanta Posts:221 Points:62,725 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: 12/29/2008 5:48:06 PM	Ignore foxesfords Report Abuse
	R I P OPEC
usfmom Sophomore Author Tampa Posts:212 Points:54,585 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: 12/29/2008 3:48:55 PM	Ignore usfmom Report Abuse
	Russia could realign and join OPEC. They're getting mighty friendly with Venezuela, putting a Russian presence in the Caribbean besides Cuba.
gougedQC Champion Author Montreal Posts:1,451 Points:21,130 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: 12/29/2008 3:43:14 PM	Ignore gougedQC Report Abuse
	some b/g info OPEC is Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Libya, Qatar, UAE, Algeria, Angola, Nigeria. Ecuador, Venezuela. SIXTY percent of oil production is by NON-OPEC countries. Seven of the fifteen largest oil producers are non-opec. Russia, USA, China, Mexico, Canada, Norway, Brazil, (also Britain-although north sea oil is declining) China is a net importer, and several countries production is declining, except Russia, canada, USA, Brazil (Azerbaijan and Khazastan are increasing) Mexico's exports are up, but there are doubts this can be sustained.
bilalyasin Sophomore Author Richmond Posts:143 Points:107,560 Joined:Dec 2002	Message Posted: 12/29/2008 3:08:54 PM	Ignore bilalyasin Report Abuse
	Yes, OPEC is on its way out. Unless it switches to financing solar and become OSEC (Organization of Solar Exporting Countries).
DrivingFool2 Sophomore Author Wisconsin Posts:218 Points:61,685 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: 12/29/2008 3:05:31 PM	Ignore DrivingFool2 Report Abuse
	If Russia joins OPEC, stand by for a miraculous recovery.
Bill313 Champion Author Kansas City Posts:5,505 Points:770,015 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: 12/29/2008 2:11:12 PM	Ignore Bill313 Report Abuse
	Maybe, but they still have more power together than alone.
PathfinderSC Champion Author South Carolina Posts:1,442 Points:259,480 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: 12/29/2008 2:09:06 PM	Ignore PathfinderSC Report Abuse
	The only way to put the last nail in OPEC COFFIN is to open up our oil fields up . and use alternative fuels
Valricoslash Sophomore Author Tampa Posts:105 Points:24,605 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: 12/28/2008 8:32:51 AM	Ignore Valricoslash Report Abuse
	Somebody must have been reading my posts. I* have been saying this in this forum for over six weeks. OPEC nations need the money because they have to fund their out of control spending just like we do. Since the price is down they will have to sell more to make up the difference becuase cutting supply is not working so far.
gougedQC Champion Author Montreal Posts:1,451 Points:21,130 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: 12/28/2008 7:21:13 AM	Ignore gougedQC Report Abuse
	Death of OPEC? Extremely unlikely. Build new refineries? Also probably not going to happen... far too expensive to build new ones, for what is known to be a dwindling resource. It is unlikely anyone will invest in that kind of a situation. Keep the bicycle...saves you money, and gives you exercise, in fact use it more.. a definite win/win situation
wdbcab Sophomore Author Georgia Posts:233 Points:50,315 Joined:Sep 2007	Message Posted: 12/28/2008 6:57:03 AM	Ignore wdbcab Report Abuse
	SAA45 is right, we need to start drilling and building refineries, it will give opec a kick in the seat and help prevent our money from going to countries that hate America.
SAA45 Veteran Author Orlando Posts:266 Points:58,605 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: 12/28/2008 5:55:24 AM	Ignore SAA45 Report Abuse
	End? Doubt it. However, we can throw a few punches by conserving and drilling.
rwsb30 Sophomore Author Dayton Posts:135 Points:46,405 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: 12/28/2008 5:01:29 AM	Ignore rwsb30 Report Abuse
	End of OPEC? Probably not,but we can always hope! DOES THIS MEAN I CAN GIVE UP MY BICYCLE?
BIGOILEATURCRUD Rookie Author North Carolina Posts:79 Points:34,630 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: 12/27/2008 7:19:11 PM	Ignore BIGOILEATURCRUD Report Abuse
	?
JohnBeau Sophomore Author Calgary Posts:117 Points:7,300 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: 12/8/2008 5:09:34 PM	Ignore JohnBeau Report Abuse
	The death of OPEC? That won't happen.
eagle1878 Veteran Author Wisconsin Posts:311 Points:104,275 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: 12/8/2008 5:56:09 AM	Ignore eagle1878 Report Abuse
	o
starfighter08 Veteran Author Illinois Posts:362 Points:45,265 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: 12/8/2008 5:49:14 AM	Ignore starfighter08 Report Abuse
	That would be the best news of all.
FordF2502001 Veteran Author Mississippi Posts:251 Points:80,275 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: 12/8/2008 5:38:50 AM	Ignore FordF2502001 Report Abuse
	keep conserving and OPEC will crack
chemist74 Champion Author Cleveland Posts:6,735 Points:1,090,220 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: 12/8/2008 4:32:21 AM	Ignore chemist74 Report Abuse
	The price will go back up when the global economy starts to recover. If OPEC can make a production cut stick, the price will go up sooner.
etchief Rookie Author Fort Worth Posts:82 Points:6,810 Joined:Mar 2007	Message Posted: 12/8/2008 4:21:15 AM	Ignore etchief Report Abuse
	Not as long as they can make money.
jmuse Champion Author Long Island Posts:1,155 Points:234,235 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: 12/8/2008 3:18:36 AM	Ignore jmuse Report Abuse
	I'm ready to dance on their grave.
beachbumCA All-Star Author Riverside Posts:765 Points:194,365 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: 12/7/2008 7:17:16 PM	Ignore beachbumCA Report Abuse
	They are here to stay. With the oil they may win. At times we do not try very hard. We need a real world plan.
hotrod0526 Sophomore Author Detroit Posts:245 Points:101,130 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: 12/7/2008 6:22:41 PM	Ignore hotrod0526 Report Abuse
	they will only go away if you are DREAMING.......
LuckyD43 Champion Author Phoenix Posts:7,685 Points:1,018,295 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: 12/7/2008 5:41:55 PM	Ignore LuckyD43 Report Abuse
	We can only WISH it, but we all know that is NOT going to happen. OPEC will still be around long after we're all gone.
Glenniemae Sophomore Author New York Posts:109 Points:519,425 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: 12/7/2008 5:33:56 PM	Ignore Glenniemae Report Abuse
	No way is OPEC done. OPEC is alive and well. Its a supply and demand situation.
SAA45 Veteran Author Orlando Posts:266 Points:58,605 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: 12/7/2008 3:23:20 PM	Ignore SAA45 Report Abuse
	Let's not kid anyone. OPEC is not gone.
Jagman98 All-Star Author Louisville Posts:822 Points:112,255 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: 12/7/2008 2:29:31 PM	Ignore Jagman98 Report Abuse
	Drill Now....Drill Often.....and bury OPEC.....
4eyedstang Sophomore Author Atlanta Posts:181 Points:36,200 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: 12/7/2008 2:04:12 PM	Ignore 4eyedstang Report Abuse
	Could not happen to a more deserving group.....
RichWeb Rookie Author Orange County Posts:88 Points:49,685 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: 12/7/2008 1:47:02 PM	Ignore RichWeb Report Abuse
	hopefully
PathfinderSC Champion Author South Carolina Posts:1,442 Points:259,480 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: 12/7/2008 1:39:41 PM	Ignore PathfinderSC Report Abuse
	Wont get to go to the funeral, But will send flowers.
jcVA All-Star Author Virginia Beach Posts:686 Points:87,975 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: 12/7/2008 12:24:05 PM	Ignore jcVA Report Abuse
	opec ... go away
FordF2502001 Veteran Author Mississippi Posts:251 Points:80,275 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: 12/7/2008 10:22:44 AM	Ignore FordF2502001 Report Abuse
	Nice to hear OPEC members have adopted our foolish deficit spending ways!
foxesfords Sophomore Author Atlanta Posts:221 Points:62,725 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 5:17:55 AM	Ignore foxesfords Report Abuse
	I will attend that funeral
magnumCA Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:1,583 Points:302,050 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: 12/4/2008 2:07:25 PM	Ignore magnumCA Report Abuse
	hope so
Bill313 Champion Author Kansas City Posts:5,505 Points:770,015 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: 12/4/2008 12:00:51 PM	Ignore Bill313 Report Abuse
	nOW THAT IS A GOOD THOUGHT
JAW746 Sophomore Author Florida Posts:147 Points:26,045 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: 12/4/2008 11:12:41 AM	Ignore JAW746 Report Abuse
	Please. Cry me a river. These people have held the whole world hostage for years, remember the last "shortage?" I hope I live long enough to see them try to eat their oil or starve.
RichWeb Rookie Author Orange County Posts:88 Points:49,685 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 8:08:36 PM	Ignore RichWeb Report Abuse
	This monopoly NEEDS to be broken
magnumCA Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:1,583 Points:302,050 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 4:35:53 PM	Ignore magnumCA Report Abuse
	hope so
MetroSexual Champion Author New Hampshire Posts:2,166 Points:248,215 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 3:14:48 PM	Ignore MetroSexual Report Abuse
	I won't be shedding any tears.
gas1prospector Champion Author Toronto Posts:2,108 Points:450,095 Joined:Aug 2007	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 3:04:45 PM	Ignore gas1prospector Report Abuse
	Does anyone recall me telling this little story, the last few weeks. This guy just puts a lot more detail into the mix. However, he misses the pther side of the tale. That part, is how Russia has been courting both Venezuela and Iran; but that is another story in itself. The main point here is, not all OPEC members can afford a further production cut and even if they do package one, there is no guarantee that it will work. This could put a very large kink in Obama's plan to reduce dependence on foreign Oil. It will be very difficult to accomplish, if Oil is being sold for $35 per barrel. It will also put a damper on the search for viable alternatives. Friendly Oil will also take a hit, having to compete against low world prices. Does anyone benefit? Big Oil and the refineries, will get a better slice and consumers will be joyful, but in the end, high prices will return and we will be back where we started. [Edited by: gas1prospector at 12/3/2008 7:05:32 PM EST]
dranske Veteran Author Miami Posts:336 Points:127,365 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 1:37:56 PM	Ignore dranske Report Abuse
	Wouldn't it be nice...
rob_37 Sophomore Author Little Rock Posts:132 Points:50,615 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 10:20:42 AM	Ignore rob_37 Report Abuse
	I doubt OPEC will die, but its nice to see them feel some pain after the pain they have heaped upon the consumers the past 4 years.
Jarod13 Veteran Author Virginia Posts:260 Points:66,180 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 9:24:44 AM	Ignore Jarod13 Report Abuse
	My heart really goes out to the Venezuelas and Irans of OPEC -- NOT! Maybe now their governments will realize once and for all that they can't keep their country's citizen living in the dark ages indefinitely. You can only hold back back progress and democracy for so long before the natives get restless. Even if OPEC decides to cut production later this month, their will be enough opposition around the world to keep oil prices low for the foreseeable future. Maybe Chavez is having second thoughts of taking over the oil companies and designating them wards of the state. It's too bad that the only ones that will suffer will be the poorest of the poorest, certainly not Chavez and his henchmen. Same with Iran, only the most powerful will not be effected by the downturn of the oil markets. Saudi Arabia and the other conservative members of OPEC will weather the storm and be better off, both financially and in their standing in the eyes of the rest of the world.
jcurley Champion Author California Posts:1,311 Points:296,475 Joined:Dec 2007	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 9:17:24 AM	Ignore jcurley Report Abuse
	No, but it will be fun to observe as they try to find a balance between these two opposite goals.
cableman31 Champion Author New York Posts:1,004 Points:475,165 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 7:52:36 AM	Ignore cableman31 Report Abuse
	Two completely useless countries. I'll bet we have a bomb with each countries name on it. Now is the time to use them.
no1doc Champion Author Milwaukee Posts:1,349 Points:211,350 Joined:Oct 2007	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 7:33:53 AM	Ignore no1doc Report Abuse
	You're right trojan; greed and stupidity are a dangerous combination. I'm also reminded of some of our government leaders.
Grebe Veteran Author Wisconsin Posts:494 Points:1,053,040 Joined:Feb 2003	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 7:13:04 AM	Ignore Grebe Report Abuse
	No.
kdhloretto Veteran Author Twin Cities Posts:282 Points:274,825 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 7:12:19 AM	Ignore kdhloretto Report Abuse
	OPEC, in many ways is like the United Nations. They are a collection of countries that try to influence each other in some sort of "Common Interest" way in a "Club" setting. They all make promises to each other, and go home and do what is in their own best interest most of the time anyway. They are both a debating society, that has no real effect or purpose, so either organization could die, and nothing would really change.
gasoutherneagle Rookie Author Georgia Posts:61 Points:21,665 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 7:10:20 AM	Ignore gasoutherneagle Report Abuse
	Russia is spending its oil revenues on rebuilding its war machine. Their going to pump as much as they can to rebuild their military oriented society and combine this with other nationalist desires. They'll want to maintain a high revenue stream. So OPEC will have to compete now. As for a bubble, OPEC survived the 70's and 80's. Their feudal system will rein in the cavalier countries of Iran and Venezuela.
Martinman Champion Author Mississippi Posts:2,974 Points:590,720 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 6:55:44 AM	Ignore Martinman Report Abuse
	OPEC did as the oil companies did, and as many people have done in countless nations around the world. All failed to use short-term opportunities other that to exploit them in one fashion or another, and in turn created a "bubble" within their respective area, that burst. For OPEC it was capital inflow from crude oil sales, for the oil companies it was never-ending record profits based on the price of oil, for people it was rising housing values and expanding credit. They've all popped, and now all involved are suffering from withdrawl to their short-lived dependencies... Previously when this has happened, cartel members began "cheating" on their respective cartel quotas to "meet financial obligations". It is the degree of cheating this time, that will determine if OPEC remains viable as each country struggles to meet forecast oil revenue expectations. What most fail to recognize are the two wildcards in this game - Russia as a non-OPEC exporter with no obligations, and China as an importer if it continues in hoarding natural resources.
trojanbuck Champion Author Dayton Posts:1,285 Points:292,110 Joined:Aug 2007	Message Posted: 12/3/2008 6:53:52 AM	Ignore trojanbuck Report Abuse
	Nothing divides like greed. When, in the case of Venezuela and Iran, you combine that with stupidity, you can get a real big train wreck. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of people.

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